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hello and welcome to the SSC Community discussion\h
hour my name is Annalisa ventola I'm the chief\h\h

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editor editor of edge science and I will\h
be your host for this event I have with\h\h

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me Professor Nolan Chandra the grandma\h
Singa he was a world-renowned astronomer\h\h

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astrophysicist and Pioneer of astrobiology in 1977\h
together with the late sir Fred Hoyle he proposed\h\h

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a theory of commentary commentary panspermia\h
the theory that comets carry the seeds of life\h\h

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and that life is distributed throughout the\h
Universe discoveries in geology and astronomy\h\h

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continued to provide evidence supporting\h
his theory known as cometary panspermia\h\h

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from 1963 to 1973 he was a form former fellow\h
of the Jesus College Cambridge and a founding\h\h

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member of The Institute of astronomy in Cambridge\h
from 1973 to 2010 he was professor at Cardiff\h\h

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University he has published over 450 peer-reviewed\h
papers and scientific journals and over 30 books\h\h

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the professor's talk is pre-recorded however he is\h
here as you can see and he's going to be joining\h\h

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us at the end for live q a we will now begin\h
the presentation because today an angel conflict\h\h

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between two rival ideas rival theories about how\h
we that is to say life came to be in the universe\h\h

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and I would like to cite this as just one\h
example of a situation where culture religion\h\h

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and tradition apparently trumps all facts relating\h
to the the problems that we have at hand foreign

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take for instance the case of the the Roman\h
numerals I mean this is maybe a little bit of\h\h

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distraction but I think it is relevant if you look\h
at these Roman numerals they're they're hideous I\h\h

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mean they are 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 i v v i and so on and\h
these are numbers that were in Vogue throughout\h\h

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the uh European State system until about the\h
18th century and it is really remarkable that\h\h

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one could just imagine doing long division and\h
calculus Etc uh with these Roman numerals and\h\h

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there were mathematicians in the 17th 18th\h
centuries who really protested against the\h\h

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use of the Roman numerals and uh but as I said\h
they were used throughout Europe uh sort of on\h\h

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abashedly from about a thousand uh the ad that\h
was in Common Era to about 880. even though\h\h

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the the number system that you and I are all\h
accustomed now which is called the Hindu Arabic\h\h

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number system was actually brought to the notice\h
of European uh practitioners European scientists\h\h

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uh but they rejected the idea because it was\h
connected with with the Deep rooted suspicion of\h\h

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non-Christian non-uh European origins of this\h
system so this is the reason why it was not\h\h

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readily accepted by philosophers mathematicians\h
accountants and so on in Europe until the 18th\h\h

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century uh this is an interesting story in\h
the 7th Century uh A.D of Common Era an Arab\h\h

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scholar called Severus sebuct uh brought this to\h
everybody's notice and he wrote to his friends\h\h

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and colleagues and and so on everywhere in the\h
so-called civilized world he wrote The Following\h\h

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I will omit all discussion of the science of the\h
Hindus the people not the same as the syrians\h\h

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there are subtle discoveries in the science of\h
astronomy discoveries that are more ingenious than\h\h

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those of the Greeks and the Babylonians they're\h
valuable methods of calculation they're Computing\h\h

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that surpasses description I wish only to say that\h
this computation is done by means of nine signs\h\h

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if those who believe because they speak\h
Greek that they have reached the limits\h\h

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of science should know these things they\h
should be convinced that there are also\h\h

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others who know something and the other thing\h
was something of course knew something much\h\h

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better the number system that we are all\h
familiar with one two three four and so on\h\h

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has come to be the the Cornerstone of all our\h
cultural development since the enlightenment\h\h

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anyway but Europe as I said did not adopt this\h
Hindu Arabic nervous system until well into the\h\h

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18th century so that's the the background uh\h
so I would really like in a more General sense\h\h

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to bust the myth that scientific truths are\h
always secure and invaluable and independent\h\h

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of cultural constraints that's what we are led to\h
believe when we are taught science in our schools\h\h

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in the modern technological age that we live\h
in of course such a belief is understandable\h\h

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uh take uh cell phones our computers\h
and so on this is marvelous things\h\h

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and we all enjoy the marvels of scientific\h
achievement that Prevail in the year 2022\h\h

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but the greater and deeper truths about the\h
world we live in are far from secure and this\h\h

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uh includes of course the origins of life in the\h
cosmos the origins of Consciousness which I think\h\h

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you have discussed in your Journal many on many\h
occasions and the origin of the universe itself\h\h

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uh but I should add at this point to caveat\h
that portions of sun the scientific Canon\h\h

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the Orthodox sense that we believe or we\h
think is really definite and are secure\h\h

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there are several of these and they include\h
Newtonian Dynamics nucleophysics for example\h\h

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uh anatomy and and a lot of others but\h
based on firmly on the empirical method\h\h

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a recent terms for instance in uh in In classical\h
mechanics which is a skill science from well from\h\h

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the 16th century onwards uh is is really shown\h
almost day by day with the various achievements\h\h

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that we are making for instance this September a\h
few a few weeks ago in fact the dance Mission uh\h\h

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sent a probe since sentiment an object essentially\h
a large object to hit an asteroid seven over seven\h\h

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million years uh sorry so many kilometers from\h
from Earth and the success of this mission to\h\h

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send this object all the way to the um the the the\h
moon of the of the asteroid called dimorphos was\h\h

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really a great feat of scientific achievement so\h
there are many things like that that are based own\h\h

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areas of science that are secure like Newtonian\h
mechanics then there is for instance nucleophysics\h\h

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which is a definite sense that tells us how the\h
Sun Shines and how the stars shine how we all get\h\h

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our energy from the Sun and this is these are hard\h
facts and they're beyond refutation in the case of\h\h

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the Sun for instance for protons linked together\h
at the very high pressures that exist in the Deep\h\h

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interior of the sun they link together in the\h
nuclear reaction that produces helium releases\h\h

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a neutral neutrino positron and of course the\h
energy that that we enjoy the solar energy\h\h

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that that we depend upon and all life on Earth\h
depends on the radiation the light from the sun\h\h

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but similar certainty does not apply for ideas\h
or theories about the origin of life and the\h\h

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origin of the universe these are matters as I\h
said earlier that are inextricably linked to\h\h

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culture and religion and are still unfortunately\h
rigidly controlled by the force of authority in\h\h

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the modern world and force of authority means uh\h
institutions uh universities teaching systems and\h\h

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Perth most importantly the academies like\h
the Royal Society the French Academy of\h\h

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Science and so on and these started in the\h
early stages of the European enlightenment

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theories about the the origin of Life how life\h
began of course has a very deep history that goes\h\h

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back several millennia the basic choice that we\h
have as we shall see is between two propositions\h\h

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one the idea of spontaneous generation that's\h
called the theory of spontaneous generation\h\h

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which says that life started from none non-life\h
spontaneously and the competing theory that I\h\h

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have been working on and subscribing to\h
for over 40 days or four decades is the\h\h

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theory of panspermia which says that life is\h
a cosmic phenomenon eternally present in the\h\h

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cosmos and taking root whenever and wherever\h
the conditions for for Life become suitable

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uh as I said so this goes back a long time and\h
and the the idea of of panspermia dates back in\h\h

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the western Tradition at any rate to a Greek\h
pre-socratic philosopher called Anna exergus

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proposed that life appears spontaneously from\h
non-life whenever the conditions the ambient\h\h

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conditions are satisfied so this is as I said in\h
the western tradition goes back to pre-socratic\h\h

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terms but in the older traditions of for\h
instance in Ancient India the way that as\h\h

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it goes back even further to about 2000 BCE\h
and that's the uh in The Vedas for example

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the the idea of spontaneous generation\h
that Life Starts spontaneously whenever\h\h

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conditions are appropriate for example on\h
this planet this is a much later idea that\h\h

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came into Western Traditions Western\h
philosophy about 150 years after the\h\h

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inventor the European inventor\h
a Greek inventor of uh or pants

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it was due so spontaneous generation\h
was signed firmly to a philosopher\h\h

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perhaps a greater philosopher in the history\h
of Science and History of philosophy and his\h\h

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name is Aristotle who lived in the um the 3rd\h
Century BCE he was a pupil of Plato the great\h\h

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philosopher Plato he was a teacher of Alexander\h
the Great who was of course a tower and he was a\h\h

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towering influence on Western philosophy it was\h
he who introduced the Earth centered cosmology\h\h

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also the idea that the Earth is the center of our\h
solar system and also spontaneous generation which\h\h

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implies earth-centered biology so these ideas um\h
all that is totally in the Western World were to\h\h

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dominate Western thinking for over 2000 years\h
but this is important the stress at this point\h\h

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that it was greatly assisted the dominance of\h
these ideas this earth-centered solar system\h\h

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the earth-centered life system and so on was\h
greatly assisted by the rise of Christianity\h\h

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Christendom uh it was this guy Thomas Saint\h
Thomas Aquinas who in the 13th century uh\h\h

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provided institutional support for almost\h
the whole of Aristotle in philosophy\h\h

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he adopted every bit of Aristotle in\h
philosophy into Christian Theology and\h\h

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so that was the starting point of a very rigid\h
belief in Aristotle's ideas of the uh this role\h\h

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of the Earth in in this in the universe in the\h
role of life being centered on the planet Earth\h\h

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and most important questions then thereafter\h
concerns concerning our existence and so on became\h\h

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inextricably linked with Theology and culture so\h
that's the story and I think we all know that the\h\h

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the attempt to dismantle Aristotle started in\h
the beginning of the 15th century of the Common\h\h

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Era began with Copernicus and Copernicus Galileo\h
and Copernicus challenged the idea that the Earth\h\h

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was at the center of the solar system center\h
of the universe and this of course was taken\h\h

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very very seriously by the church establishment\h
by the people that establishment and there were\h\h

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many casualties Galileo was imprisoned that was\h
not a great punishment but Bruno the philosopher\h\h

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poet mathematician lost his life in the process\h
he was burned at his stake in 16 1600. dirty

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so this is a children of Giordano Bruno my\h
philosophical today for saying that there\h\h

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were other inhabited planets with\h
life on them orbiting other stars\h\h

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and there on the right hand side is the statue of

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Jordan or Bruner with us myself in Italy

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uh the loan debate about uh where the Life\h
starts on the Earth or was brought from outside\h\h

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so the debate between spontaneous generation the\h
intellectual debate between spontaneous generation\h\h

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and Paris Premier began to take a very serious\h
turn in 1865 when the French biologists Louis\h\h

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Pasteur made a groundbreaking discovery and I\h
think in that Discovery he decisively disproved\h\h

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the idea of spontaneous generation so he had this\h
system where he had brought a nutrient broth that\h\h

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brought that microbes like to grow in and he had\h
a uh he then boiled the broth in a in a flask with\h\h

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hooked with a hooked neck that you can see on top\h
there and this was this was the uh the neck that\h\h

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prevented bacteria from the air falling into the\h
broth and when the when the when the broth was\h\h

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sterilize which means that all the bugs in the\h
broth were killed and the uh and and remained with\h\h

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this hooked um neck uh laid on the top there was\h
no microbes to be found under the microscope when\h\h

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the curved neck was broken and therefore the the\h
broth uh this terrible broth was exposed to there\h\h

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then microbes grew and so microbes grew only when\h
the viable microbes when pre-existing microbes\h\h

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were able to find their way into the into the\h
broth and this I think was the first experiment\h\h

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that paved the way to prove transpermia in the\h
laboratory and Pence and pastille Louis paste\h\h

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had this dictum omnivo in Latin which says that\h
all life comes from life and that was a doctrine\h\h

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that really ripped through the intellectual scene\h
in Europe for about two or three decades before it\h\h

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also was abandoned uh the conflict uh so as\h
I said the conflict between these two ideas\h\h

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transformation versus spontaneous generation has\h
lasted from essentially until the present day uh\h\h

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every scientific establishment has found a reason\h
to say that panspermia is not established we don't\h\h

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like it we prefer the Aristotle in theory\h
of spontaneous generation life just emerging\h\h

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from nothing when conditions\h
on a planet becomes appropriate\h\h

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uh so it was really a conflict that was pro\h
trade as between Superstition Superstition\h\h

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being panspermia and signs being the um the idea\h
that um that likes the Springs from non-life\h\h

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when I myself personally visited revisit their\h
parents permia in 1980 it had already been\h\h

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assigned to the category of superstition so that's\h
the bad start to to begin with so Aristotle's\h\h

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primary serpent that time and right from the\h
beginning of the 20th century took this form\h\h

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which is a soup of mixture of organic chemicals\h
thrown into an early primitive Earth undergoing a\h\h

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set of chemical reactions ending up with the first\h
microbial cell from which everything else Frank\h\h

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uh this was taken further by the work of the\h
1950s by uh the famous geologists had a theory\h\h

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and chemist Sandy Miller who in the laboratory\h
was able to show that simple organic chemicals\h\h

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like amino acids and some carbohydrates and so\h
on could be formed in the laboratory they took\h\h

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simple inorganic chemicals like methane water\h
methane ammonia put them into a flask and they\h\h

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sure he showed that these could be formed but\h
these are very simple biochemicals very simple\h\h

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components of biology but it's a very far\h
cry from Life amino acids and nucleotides\h\h

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are nothing they have they are the components\h
the building blocks of life but they're a far\h\h

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cry from Life the important aspect of life is the\h
way that these molecules are arranged in different\h\h

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systems for instance in DNA in the enzymes\h
and the proteins that are made by the DNA and\h\h

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these cannot be assembled by random processes\h
except against a huge probability hurdle\h\h

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the probability that given all the right simple\h
building blocks amino acids nucleotides and so\h\h

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on the probability that life would emerge\h
just spontaneously is like giving a 2-2\h\h

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unbiased die like these six phase six phased\h
dies that you throw in ludoans in the kids\h\h

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games board games and give it to 500 people\h
and they simultaneously through a double six\h\h

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then that's a really incredible improbability to\h
be totally impossible the total number of atoms\h\h

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in the entire observable universe is only 10 to\h
the 80. so the probability of one in 10 to the\h\h

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Thousand is the Surplus and I think it is bizarre\h
that science still perceives this proposition\h\h

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so I think it is not surprising that many\h
Laboratories in the world many high really\h\h

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quite sophisticated Laboratories have for nearly\h
two not two how many half a century being doing\h\h

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experiments to try to prove that spontaneous\h
generation might take place and all such\h\h

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experiments have been a dismal failure uh the the\h
the two guys who originated put the modern version\h\h

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of panspermia the modern version of that is an\h
exergica suspense Vermeer into the uh into the\h\h

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mix was uh we called it commentary transpermia and\h
I'll tell you why in a minute this involves the\h\h

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synthesis the coming together of well-established\h
Sciences geology astronomy and biology that is\h\h

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Fred Hart from 1915 to 2001 and uh me starting\h
this Venture on the right hand side from 1981.

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let's start with geology what is the evidence\h
we have the most recent evidence from geology\h\h

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that spontaneous generation is wrong and\h
and uh transplanting is the right answer it\h\h

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is in 2015 when the very first evidence of\h
microbial life on the Earth was discovered\h\h

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to be locked away in crystals of a mineral called\h
zirconium they condense these minerals condensed\h\h

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on the Earth from materials on the earth 4.2\h
billion years ago very close to the time that\h\h

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the Earth is formed as a planet and these are\h
exposed now these little Blobs of microbes inside\h\h

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the crystals of zirconium which I point to with\h
those errors they're included in uh in the in the\h\h

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crystal zirconium that is exposed in a outcrop we\h
invest in Australia that's one of the most recent\h\h

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discoveries pushing back the Antiquity of life\h
to the very first moment that life could survive\h\h

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because we know that this time 4.2 billion years\h
ago was a dreadful time in the Earth's history\h\h

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Dreadful because it was the most inhospitable\h
situation for anything like life to emerge\h\h

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uh it was hit by comments ferociously the comments\h
and asteroids it was just a fiery furnace and to\h\h

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find that the rocks that formed at this time\h
carry uh little bits of microbes is just uncanny\h\h

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the theory of cometary panspermia is what\h
we proposed over over several decades now\h\h

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and it has many uh predictions it is the\h
science we make predictions we look for uh\h\h

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verification of those predictions in astronomy\h
geology and biology and they have been found on\h\h

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unquestionably found over the past four decades\h
so we have primordial microbes and bacteria and\h\h

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viruses that are just in the universe and uh as\h
part and past of the cosmos they are Incorporated\h\h

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in planets that form around stars and the planets\h
and the Comets that are responsible for amplifying\h\h

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for increasing these numbers of bacteria throw\h
them back into space and there is a positive\h\h

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feedback loop where an initial Cosmic Legacy of\h
microbes is continuously Amplified inside the warm\h\h

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liquid Interiors of Commerce so this prediction\h
uh we make a very firm prediction on the basis of\h\h

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this theory that Interstellar does the dust that\h
you see between the stars in the Milky Way in vast\h\h

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quantity I mean all of the dark strations\h
and patches that you see in the night sky\h\h

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on a dark night is made of trillions and trillions\h
of Interstellar dust particles and we predict that\h\h

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these dust particles should reveal the signs of\h
bacteria and who are very enviruses in various\h\h

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states of Decay and that's what we began to\h
find from 1981 onwards uh this is the first\h\h

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prediction that was verified the curve is\h
a prediction of the spectral signature of\h\h

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Interstellar dust if it were bacteria if the\h
cosmic does the dark material in space was largely\h\h

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bacteria and viruses this was what we would\h
expect the Curve uh the signature of spectroscopy\h\h

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signature from 2.9 micrometers to 4 micrometers\h
and the the points are the observations of of\h\h

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a source of radiation in this deep Universe in\h
this in fact very close to center of our galaxy\h\h

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that was discovered in 1981 and when we put these\h
two together they sat so precisely one out of the\h\h

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other that uh we just essentially cheered and\h
said this is it we approve that bacteria the\h\h

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main component of bacteria and their degradation\h
products are the main components of cosmic dust\h\h

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so the theory of that we then developed\h
thereafter with comets these comments are\h\h

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the Distributors incubators Distributors\h
of luck in the cosmos in recent scientific\h\h

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uh astronomical discoveries have shown that\h
cometary material material from that are related\h\h

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of derived from Commerce like asteroids bits of\h
estrogen and so on have all the signatures of\h\h

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of primitive primordial oceans within them\h
and it is in Within These oceans Within These\h\h

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warm liquid Interiors heated by radioactive\h
heat sources that microbes in the universe\h\h

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essentially survive and are distributed and\h
these pictures of of hair cometail bob in 1997.

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the first evidence that the Comets really contain\h
living particles also came very closely followed\h\h

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quite a few just a few years after we made the\h
prediction that comets should carry microorganisms\h\h

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there was the first exploration of a comet uh\h
in the space age and that was uh comatelli in\h\h

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1986 made his first periodian passage of the over\h
80 years and there were missions European space\h\h

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missions and so on to essentially photograph the\h
nucleus of a comment that had not been seen until\h\h

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that time so on the left hand side the orange\h
picture the dark patch there is the comet uh which\h\h

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was surprisingly found to be very dark astronomers\h
didn't expect it to be that they thought it was it\h\h

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was an Isis like a snow field and they were really\h
shocked and surprised to find that you know it was\h\h

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so dark and then we had a spectrum of the comment\h
taken by my brother in fact in Australia and David\h\h

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Allen and again the points in the curve under uh\h
um that matched the curve is the correspondence\h\h

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between the spectrum of the dust that flow that\h
flowed out from comatary in 1986 and the uh the\h\h

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prediction of a bacterium so so there are two\h
two hits that essentially came within a couple\h\h

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of years of each other proving in our minds\h
that this is the right idea for the existence\h\h

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of life in the universe where ever since then ever\h
since 19 the 1980s comets have been the focus of\h\h

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astronomical investigation and the most recent\h
mission to accommet was of course the Rosetta\h\h

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Mission which ended in in 2016 and in that mission\h
uh complex organic molecules that were relevant to\h\h

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life were discovered in great quantity and an\h
exceedingly dark surface was also found similar\h\h

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to the situation we found in a commentary in\h
1986 so this is the the Rosetta Mission common\h\h

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to Comet 67p CG and it also led to a detection of\h
the surface reflectivity of the comet the Matilda\h\h

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the comment how how does the comet reflect\h
infrared light and again these curves uh I\h\h

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don't want to go into details but because show\h
how closely the ex the the the they observed\h\h

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um reflection spectrum and the infrared\h
matched the properties of a bacterium

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uh I think I should maybe this is to do with\h
culture and so on so as you make make a mention\h\h

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of this I along with my colleague in Canada\h
Max Wallace was on part of the the science\h\h

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uh planning team for the Rosetta Mission before it\h
was launched and we support basically we suggested\h\h

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that they put on the landing device which is\h
called which is called filler the Lander that\h\h

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landed in in 2014 on the services we suggested\h
that they put a simple life detection system where\h\h

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you pour nutrient onto the soil and see where\h
the the nutrient is taken up of course cultural\h\h

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constraints were strongly operative at the time\h
and these prevented the inclusion of a simple ten\h\h

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ten thousand dollar experiment which may have uh\h
proved once and for all that the comments are sort\h\h

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of full of living particles anyway that's\h
the way that uh that science proceeds and\h\h

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recently or no not before rosetta in fact\h
there were several instances where the the\h\h

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living Comet idea was was essentially\h
proved by astronomical observations\h\h

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we had a comment and that already showed the\h
picture of this comment here about in 1981 when\h\h

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it was way past the orbit of Jupiter in the cold\h
depths of space uh it was essentially exploding\h\h

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popping just sort of the clothing and producing\h
huge huge Comas Tales reflecting material around\h\h

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and that really baffled scientists because uh\h
at at six astronomic reunions or distance of\h\h

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uh beyond beyond the orbit of Jupiter uh the the\h
comet was so cold that they could not have led to\h\h

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it there could not have been any evaporation or\h
material from this surface so what was happening\h\h

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was that biology was taking place underneath the\h
surface of the of the comment uh there was high\h\h

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pressure Pockets developed and and just sort of\h
popping out popping out like like a fermenting\h\h

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broth and then that was repeated again uh this\h
is a story of uh a famous London Brewery and a\h\h

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classic incident in 1814 showing that fermenting\h
beer could explode and produce a huge flood of\h\h

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material and that's exactly what happened in the\h
case of the Comets in September 2021 this last\h\h

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year a giant Comet a very large comet called\h
bernadelli Bernstein was that even the greater\h\h

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distance than the hail above Comet was when it\h
was near the orbit of Jupiter it was at 2 billion\h\h

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kilometers from the Sun and acted in a very\h
similar way it exploded it became very luminous\h\h

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and it should not have been luminous at that\h
point when the temperature surface temperatures\h\h

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was minus 210 degrees Celsius Celsius it flared\h
up on one day in on the 19th of September this\h\h

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this is tillem great mystery for guys who don't\h
like to think that comets have biology exploding\h\h

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within their Interiors but this was explosion\h
that was detected only a year or two ago

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uh then I think this is an interesting this\h
last month there was a as I referred to or\h\h

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the the dark mission of the mission to deflect\h
a commenter or an asteroid if it was heading\h\h

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towards us towards the Earth uh so this\h
led to the collision between between the\h\h

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um the uh the this this is dim office the moon\h
of this this asteroid and the dart Mission hit\h\h

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this uh spot on and this ex and the whole stuff\h
the whole thing that exploded it should be left\h\h

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to be seen whether the these filaments that are\h
coming out essentially contains again the Spectra\h\h

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of living material whether that would ever be done\h
for cultural reasons remains to be seen so the\h\h

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question then that I want to pose is are microbes\h
viruses from comets coming to the Earth today\h\h

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and I want to I would like to maintain that\h
this question can be answered decisively and\h\h

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precisely and we can get a definite answer\h
tomorrow but culture and Prejudice and even\h\h

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religion that stands in the way uh to to step\h
back a little bit in the 1980s when we first\h\h

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expanded and wrote about the idea of the Comets\h
bringing life and we regarded comments as being an\h\h

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integral part of the evolution of Life Evolution\h
uh biological Revelation being directed from space\h\h

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from the uh coming from Commerce causing pandemics\h
like influenza and in more recent times uh\h\h

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the coronavirus pandemic and also the idea that\h
viruses are responsible or plays an important part\h\h

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in the entire evolution of life from its first\h
Inception in those bacteria that you saw 4.2\h\h

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billion years ago to the present answers and and\h
to answer the question whether comets have been\h\h

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connected with the evolution I should mention that\h
the crucial step that was involved in this whole\h\h

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process of connecting comets virus in space and\h
evolution was the unraveling of the human genome\h\h

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in the year 2000 we now know that the human genome\h
our DNA contains over five percent of sequences\h\h

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that are actually derived from viruses and that\h
interacted genetically with our ancestors with\h\h

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the ancestors that led to us eventually ancestors\h
also of all the plants and animals and in case of\h\h

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humans I think there's also growing evidence\h
that these viruses that were responsible for\h\h

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evolution was also responsible for bringing genes\h
that permitted speech Consciousness even and and\h\h

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brain function and that's this is ongoing research\h
so the evolutionary harmonies for instance over\h\h

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a million years this month we think by successive\h
pandemics from space like the coronavirus pandemic\h\h

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recently and each of these pandemics turned out\h
to be a very close call to Total Extinction but we\h\h

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survived through this sequence and we essentially\h
emerged and the present um as homo sapiens

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Samara says as a state have contributed\h
to the evolution of our brain even to the\h\h

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evolution of consciousness uh in relation to\h
the evolution Consciousness it's interesting\h\h

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that the human brain doubled in size in\h
volume and just half a million years ago\h\h

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and what caused it we don't know I think it could\h
be of viruses that were brought from from outside\h\h

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foreign well I think having said all this\h
the important question is how could we\h\h

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prove that this is happening even at the present\h
time we know that the Earth this is the Earth is a\h\h

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picture of all the commentary over it's a short\h
period comments and the red circle here is the\h\h

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orbit of the Earth the Sun is at the center the\h
Earth's orbits then is clearly in the midst of\h\h

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all the debris that uh sort of thrown out from the\h
comets and so these come with the Earth is picking\h\h

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up this debris on a regular basis uh so could\h
it be could it be verified could we collect this\h\h

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commentary debris gently before it became mixed up\h
with the Earth's uh Mark or its bacteria and so on\h\h

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and examine it and we try to do this in the run\h
up to the New Millennium we didn't have any luck\h\h

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from European American British space agencies\h
but the Indian space agency called ISRO Indian\h\h

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space research organization came to the rescue\h
and they the very sophisticated organization the\h\h

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Indians are have been great scientists in\h
the past and also now so they decided that\h\h

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they would go for this and they sent a very very\h
sophisticated collect collection devices these are\h\h

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the collection devices that was lofted by balloon\h
uh where the balloon here shown here to a height\h\h

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of 41 kilometers is in the atmosphere in the\h
stratosphere on the 20th of January 2001 and what\h\h

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they did was essentially to the these cylinders\h
were evacuated to begin with this as a vacuum the\h\h

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Requiem was open here the valve was open and when\h
it was in the stratosphere all the stuff that was\h\h

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around was sucked into the into the cylinders\h
and the cylinders were brought back parachuted\h\h

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back to ground examined in the laboratory so this\h
was a a very very important experiment that was\h\h

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done in 2001 led to a large number of scientific\h
papers said oh in the literature and are being\h\h

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just marginalized or ignored we found evidence of\h
bacilli of nanobacteria or viruses and the height\h\h

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of and these structures are fluorescent because\h
they are living and height of 41 kilometers we\h\h

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reckoned was too high for lofting microbes from\h
the earth I mean there are processes that take\h\h

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microbes on the earth to the high atmosphere\h
but 41 kilometers you don't get very much except\h\h

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perhaps and Times of volcanoes and there was no\h
volcano at the time the estimated daily input of\h\h

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microbes over the whole earth on the basis of\h
this experiment that we did and we can we can\h\h

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do a sampling experiment we can take a little\h
volume of of this Stratosphere see how much\h\h

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stuff has been injected in one day and it lay it\h
leads that calculation leads to 0.3 to 3 tons of\h\h

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microbiometer coming in from space every single\h
day now that is a tremendous amount of bacteria\h\h

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and it's mind-boggling to think that that uh that\h
has not been investigated with all the techniques\h\h

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that we have uh today or the biological\h
techniques all the experimental techniques\h\h

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uh from the evidence from what we did in 2001 and\h
and the known speed at which these things fall you\h\h

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know our first uh particles can drift through the\h
air we can estimate that something like 0.3 to 3\h\h

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tons as I say the bacterial viral material falls\h
through the sky or Stratosphere every single day\h\h

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and that translates to 20 to 200 million bacteria\h
per square meter every square meter of the ground\h\h

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per day and this flux of bacteria would normally\h
go unnoticed because there's a huge amount of\h\h

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Indian sort of local bacteria on the earth as\h
we know uh we are this full of bacteria from\h\h

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all sources but it's a an amount of 20 to 200\h
million bacteria per square meter a day from\h\h

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space is an amount that we cannot afford to ignore\h
and yet science has ignored it to the present time\h\h

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uh two three years ago four years ago a team of\h
European American scientists rich is a principal\h\h

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investigator have recently shown that the above so\h
two to three kilometers there's a downward flux of\h\h

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viruses that could be an excellent in excess of\h
7 billion per square centimeter I know I said per\h\h

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square meter now it's per square centimeter per\h
day and viruses in excess of seven uh 70 billion\h\h

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per square meter a day so that's a lot of viruses\h
and undoubtedly anything falling from height to\h\h

340
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:33,960
two or three kilometers would include stuff that\h
is pulled up from the surface but it also includes\h\h

341
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:40,620
the the material that is coming from much higher\h
up as I said the the three to one three to three\h\h

342
00:44:40,620 --> 00:44:47,340
tons that are coming from space so it's all mixed\h
up and it is again mind-boggling then no attempt\h\h

343
00:44:47,340 --> 00:44:55,020
has been made to separate the the stuff from me\h
from space from the stuff that is on the Earth\h\h

344
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:02,580
so that's the uh the bottom line is that\h
Technologies are available but they're\h\h

345
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:10,500
available only in few not many Laboratories in\h
the world to essentially to to separate the the\h\h

346
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:19,380
space bacteria space incident bacteria from the\h
indigenous bacteria on the Earth so there's as\h\h

347
00:45:19,380 --> 00:45:25,140
far as the skeptic is concerned as far as the guy\h
who wants to believe in spontaneous generation is\h\h

348
00:45:25,140 --> 00:45:32,040
concerned there is a convenient uncertainty that\h
prevails in regard to the origin of these entities

349
00:45:34,140 --> 00:45:42,840
finally uh let's come to the question whether\h
there was ever a beginning of the universe this\h\h

350
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:49,320
is connected because if life was ever present\h
in the universe uh when did it start was there\h\h

351
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:57,540
a beginning of the the universe was there a\h
beginning of Life in the universe the current\h\h

352
00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:04,260
uh culturally of course the situation is that\h
there was a big bang which is uh essentially\h\h

353
00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:11,580
a scientific rendering of the Judea Christian\h
story of creation Big Bang 13.8 billion years\h\h

354
00:46:11,580 --> 00:46:20,220
ago and there's a huge catalog of events that have\h
been chartered some supported by observation the\h\h

355
00:46:20,220 --> 00:46:28,740
Islamic observations some through spec pure\h
speculation uh so 13.8 billion years ago is\h\h

356
00:46:28,740 --> 00:46:39,240
the current preferred date for the origin of the\h
big bang universe but the James Webb Telescope\h\h

357
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:45,720
that began to function only a few months ago is\h
already threatening this picture very seriously\h\h

358
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:56,940
this is an object called c c e e r s 93316\h
presumed to be the most distant Galaxy\h\h

359
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:06,240
and it is now at what is called a redshift it's\h
moving away from from Earth uh at a redshift at\h\h

360
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:16,440
6 16.7 implying that it's at a distance of 35\h
billion light years from the year that that\h\h

361
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:22,680
should not be there at that point in the history\h
of the so-called Big Bang idea there should be no\h\h

362
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:28,560
Galaxy there should be no atoms even so what is\h
this new Galaxy doing here and I think they're\h\h

363
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:34,380
going to be more and more of these things\h
found how the the astronomical establishment\h\h

364
00:47:34,380 --> 00:47:40,380
cosmological establishment Corps copes with\h
these new discoveries is still left to be seen\h\h

365
00:47:41,340 --> 00:47:49,380
ideas relating to the Antiquity of the universe\h
uh has a very long history and a very long-known\h\h

366
00:47:49,380 --> 00:47:57,840
European history and for instance in The\h
Vedic Hindu philosophies an infinite sequence\h\h

367
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:05,700
of creation and destruction is is posited and\h
these are essentially ancient Vedic Indian ideas\h\h

368
00:48:06,420 --> 00:48:15,360
according to Carl Sagan Carl Sagan has written\h
this about 20 years ago the Hindu religion we\h\h

369
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,580
refer to Hindu religion earlier at the beginning\h
of my talk uh in connection with the number system\h\h

370
00:48:20,580 --> 00:48:26,940
into Arabic number system but this is now in\h
relation to cosmology so Carl Sagan says the\h\h

371
00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:32,160
Hindu religion is not only one of the world's\h
great faiths dedicated to the idea that the\h\h

372
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:38,880
cosmos itself undergoes and immense indeed an\h
infinite number of deaths and rebirths it is the\h\h

373
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:45,660
only religion in which time skills correspond\h
to those of modern scientific cosmology its\h\h

374
00:48:45,660 --> 00:48:53,640
Cycles run from an ordinary day and night to\h
the day and night of Brahma 8.64 billion years\h\h

375
00:48:53,640 --> 00:49:00,780
long longer than the age of the Year to all the\h
Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang\h\h

376
00:49:00,780 --> 00:49:06,060
took place if there was ever a big man that\h
is and there are much longer time scale still\h\h

377
00:49:06,660 --> 00:49:16,140
so the current models that are being discussed\h
uh in the economic literacy uh is won by\h\h

378
00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:24,420
Rosa Penrose Nobel Laureate Rosa Penrose and his\h
students where they there is a sort of sequence\h\h

379
00:49:24,420 --> 00:49:32,400
of expansions and contractions and the ideas of\h
Fred Hall berbies and giant Nautica where there\h\h

380
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:39,840
was some kind of similar system to watch and\h
what Penrose is revived in more recent times\h\h

381
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:45,480
so they were no they couldn't maybe there\h
was never a beginning maybe life was always\h\h

382
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:56,880
present in the universe and the creation cycle of\h
Hindu cosmology is just a poetic expression of an\h\h

383
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:06,720
eternal Universe which is oscillating in this\h
endless series of um of creation and rebirths\h\h

384
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:15,420
so the alarming tendency uh into 2020 is\h
to ignore this entire body of evidence that\h\h

385
00:50:15,420 --> 00:50:23,460
supports not only parents permia but an infinite\h
age of cosmology Infinity Edge to the universe\h\h

386
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:33,540
the idea that viruses microorganisms bacteria are\h
continually uh arrive arriving from space despite\h\h

387
00:50:33,540 --> 00:50:39,180
all the evidence that we have accumulated\h
all the very powerful evidence uh this is\h\h

388
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:46,980
being essentially marginalized and regarded\h
as not admissible inadmissible evidence so\h\h

389
00:50:46,980 --> 00:50:55,200
this vast body of new data is disregarded as\h
being controversial culturally inadmissible\h\h

390
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:02,940
belonging essentially to a non-standard perhaps\h
a non-european knowledge tradition this attitude\h\h

391
00:51:02,940 --> 00:51:11,100
I maintain poses and imminent danger not just the\h
sons but for the well-being of humanity as a whole

392
00:51:14,700 --> 00:51:20,820
perhaps the worst casualty of all once we had\h
made that we are not unique in the universe\h\h

393
00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:28,620
that life is Cosmos Cosmic and so on will be our\h
self-images as a supreme life form in the cosmos\h\h

394
00:51:28,620 --> 00:51:35,400
which would of course be shattered and require\h
major efforts in psychological Readjustment\h\h

395
00:51:36,180 --> 00:51:43,440
when this paradigm shift is fully conceded I\h
hope it is going to be considered it is likely\h\h

396
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:49,680
that the entire structure of human society will\h
undergo a transformation more fundamental more\h\h

397
00:51:49,680 --> 00:52:00,000
profound than any that has taken place so far in\h
2022 the cultural accepted culturally accepted\h\h

398
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:06,300
Big Bang bandwagon and the origin of life on\h
Earth bandwagon is close to falling over the age\h\h

399
00:52:07,140 --> 00:52:12,000
would we have the courage to\h
admit it thank you very much

400
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,040
hello

401
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:35,760
okay and we are back so um thank you\h
so much for your excellent talk um

402
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,800
uh and and my voice was a bit hose\h
but I think it came across okay\h\h

403
00:52:45,540 --> 00:52:50,160
no I was thinking you know I would let the\h
audience know that earlier today I had the\h\h

404
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,760
option to edit this down uh and I saw the\h
entire lecture and I wouldn't have changed\h\h

405
00:52:53,760 --> 00:53:01,440
to things so we get to watch it in its entirety\h
so um uh I just want to remind those of us here\h\h

406
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:07,320
at air meet these uh our SSC members and patrons\h
um please put your questions in the designated q\h\h

407
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:12,480
a and if you are camera ready you may also use\h
the raised hand feature to ask your question\h\h

408
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:18,600
directly but do keep in mind that this event\h
is being recorded and live streamed so um

409
00:53:21,420 --> 00:53:25,080
okay um we have a question\h
actually from the soc president\h\h

410
00:53:26,820 --> 00:53:32,400
um and I'm going to go ahead and show this on\h
stage she says this is from Margaret Moga can\h\h

411
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:38,040
you discuss Advanced panspermia the possibility\h
that intelligent life on Earth is a result of\h\h

412
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,660
a purposeful experiment carried out\h
by an extraterrestrial civilization\h\h

413
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:50,640
well I mean that is the real and historical\h
possibility that is being completely ignored\h\h

414
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:58,200
in discussions of life in the universe life on the\h
earth I think if transpermia is the answer to how\h\h

415
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:07,320
life originated in our life evolves over millions\h
and billions of years then the idea that into the\h\h

416
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:14,100
the there is a purposeful experiment also being\h
carried out by a very Advanced super Advanced\h\h

417
00:54:14,100 --> 00:54:21,360
intelligent civilization that can actually\h
inject material to the Earth carrying messages\h\h

418
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:29,580
coded in in for instance in viral\h
genes and and attempting to alter\h\h

419
00:54:29,580 --> 00:54:36,060
the the process of human evolution this has\h
to be taken very seriously but it's totally\h\h

420
00:54:36,780 --> 00:54:44,700
abandoned in the anas of respectable science it's\h
relegated to the to the Realms of sort of Science\h\h

421
00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:51,780
Fiction and and maybe superstitions so this is\h
another instance where we have to keep all options\h\h

422
00:54:51,780 --> 00:55:02,040
open if life did not start here on the Earth uh\h
the possibility of more advanced life than others\h\h

423
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:10,020
than humans existing widely in the universe\h
really has to be taken seriously and and this\h\h

424
00:55:10,020 --> 00:55:16,560
is really not been even remotely considered\h
as a intelligent way of looking at things\h\h

425
00:55:17,220 --> 00:55:26,160
for example I mean if if you if you project our\h
own human civilization human technology say for\h\h

426
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:37,140
another 50 years it will be entirely possible that\h
humans will be able to devise and engineer a life\h\h

427
00:55:37,140 --> 00:55:45,240
form that is for Superior perhaps to life that\h
exists on the earth the human life for example\h\h

428
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:54,720
make a huge number of viruses that code for this\h
information and just throw it out into space and\h\h

429
00:55:54,720 --> 00:56:03,840
so what would happen thereafter is that if there\h
is a nearby planet with life with civilization\h\h

430
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:12,780
for example like us uh the the the they will be\h
essentially impregnated or infected with this with\h\h

431
00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:19,980
this new information input and so there could be\h
a deliberate attempt made by an alien civilization\h\h

432
00:56:19,980 --> 00:56:28,680
more advancing ours to influence the progress of\h
Life on our planet I think it cannot be ruled out\h\h

433
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:36,720
it's maybe it is still a way out earlier and so\h
I respect the the conservatism that prevails but\h\h

434
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:43,920
um but all I think if Transformer is admitted a\h
little bit so we have to make these possibilities\h\h

435
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:51,120
at least consider them for what they are worth\h
thank you for your answer now we have a braised\h\h

436
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:57,960
hand from a Beatrice via Royal who incidentally is\h
also the chair of an upcoming symposia that we are\h\h

437
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:03,600
hosting on astronomical anomalies so I invite\h
the interest to ask her a question directly

438
00:57:05,820 --> 00:57:13,140
um hello I have a comment and a question\h
so I just wanted first to say how actually\h\h

439
00:57:13,140 --> 00:57:17,700
important your papers were for me for my\h
personal journey to become an astronomer\h\h

440
00:57:17,700 --> 00:57:24,240
I was an undergraduate student in I was\h
studying molecular biotechnology and I\h\h

441
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:30,660
remember one day I I was taking a course\h
in microbiology and we were asked to\h\h

442
00:57:31,980 --> 00:57:36,900
um present some essays on how we thought that the\h
life came to Earth and I was very inspired by your\h\h

443
00:57:36,900 --> 00:57:42,600
ideas on transpermia and I wanted to present this\h
for the class and I was not permitted I was the\h\h

444
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:48,240
only one who was not permitted because you know\h
so different from what the biology teacher wanted\h\h

445
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:54,840
it and after that actually that was the final\h
step before I switched to astronomy I later did\h\h

446
00:57:54,840 --> 00:58:03,360
a PhD in astronomy working with quasars actually\h
very much like our ideas also on the quasars and\h\h

447
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:09,120
which I didn't follow later but it's helped\h
me very much for my journey as a scientist\h\h

448
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:16,800
and well today I'm also involved in cities such\h
as for extraterrestrial technology technology and\h\h

449
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:22,860
I wanted just to ask you sort of so that was my\h
just comment on that it has been very important\h\h

450
00:58:22,860 --> 00:58:30,420
for me to um these ideas of transparagement for my\h
professional career and I actually wanted to ask\h\h

451
00:58:30,420 --> 00:58:38,160
you if you would pick your favorite two methods\h
to search for life outside the Earth how would\h\h

452
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:46,020
you do it what would you better well I think I\h
would do two things one is to look for evidence\h\h

453
00:58:46,020 --> 00:58:52,200
of exoplanets with living signatures and that\h
is a is a possibility that is really very close\h\h

454
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:58,620
to being realized we have for example the James\h
Webb Telescope uh Hubble Telescope which is until\h\h

455
00:58:58,620 --> 00:59:07,980
recently and so on so spectroscopy very detailed\h
spectroscopy of did any detected exoplanet might\h\h

456
00:59:07,980 --> 00:59:15,840
reveal uh signs of of biochemistry but in\h
terms of I mean showing that life exists\h\h

457
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:23,940
or that transpermeables the the reason for life\h
existing on the earth this has also to be resolved\h\h

458
00:59:23,940 --> 00:59:31,800
decisively because the data is there as I pointed\h
out I mean there are tons of material biological\h\h

459
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:39,420
material falling on the Earth every single\h
minute and they're just being swamped by the by\h\h

460
00:59:39,420 --> 00:59:46,380
the native biology there's so much Hospitality so\h
much bacteria on the Earth but it is really really\h\h

461
00:59:46,380 --> 00:59:53,760
very important I think that we use our available\h
biological techniques and experimental techniques\h\h

462
00:59:53,760 --> 01:00:02,280
to to try to separate the in Falling component\h
from the indigenous component and to see how\h\h

463
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:10,020
these two components first of all this is to show\h
that an alien component does exist right and we\h\h

464
01:00:10,020 --> 01:00:18,660
can do that for example by studying the isotope\h
the signatures of the bacteria that are coming in\h\h

465
01:00:18,660 --> 01:00:27,540
for example for instance if the uh if the alien\h
bacteria came from a source where the carbon\h\h

466
01:00:27,540 --> 01:00:34,500
isotope ratio is different from the earth we would\h
we could perhaps detect the difference here on the\h\h

467
01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:41,400
earth uh just means there's a spoon coming here\h
yeah so that's one one way of discriminating\h\h

468
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:49,740
between then falling bacteria and Indigenous\h
bacteria that should be should be done as\h\h

469
01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:56,820
urgently as possible and so that's that's the\h
second first is to look for about signatures\h\h

470
01:00:56,820 --> 01:01:05,880
in exoplanets and then to study as in as detailed\h
away as possible that component of living material\h\h

471
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:12,420
that is definitely extraterrestrial and there\h
is evidence that such material does exist so\h\h

472
01:01:12,420 --> 01:01:19,980
the travestyo of of science is it it's an insult\h
to our collective intelligence that this is not\h\h

473
01:01:19,980 --> 01:01:26,220
being done and in in your personal case that\h
people didn't even want to hear your your\h\h

474
01:01:26,220 --> 01:01:33,180
assessment of the transform yeah still I mean\h
that's that's censorship at a very deep level\h\h

475
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:39,540
well I am thankful for that to happen because\h
it brought me to astronomy and it brought me to\h\h

476
01:01:39,540 --> 01:01:47,040
the where I am today so in the end I'm quite\h
happy for all these events yeah I'm enjoying\h\h

477
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:53,280
my my science where I am today really yeah\h
astronomy is a really exciting uh discipline\h\h

478
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:59,460
and it's getting more exciting with all the new\h
developments in your astronomical telescopes to\h\h

479
01:01:59,460 --> 01:02:06,780
space telescopes the exploration of asteroids and\h
so on it's it's it's accelerating it at such a\h\h

480
01:02:06,780 --> 01:02:13,860
pace that sooner or later it will not be possible\h
to deny the fact that there is life outside there\h\h

481
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:22,500
I think the same thank you for joining us\h
Beatrice uh we've got we're going to go just\h\h

482
01:02:22,500 --> 01:02:28,980
a little bit past the hour um and we've got\h
I'm going to say two more questions sort of\h\h

483
01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:33,900
um one is I got I had a question of my own and\h
I see other people are thinking similar things\h\h

484
01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:40,440
you were talking earlier about the um what\h
was my notes the uh initial Cosmic Legacy\h\h

485
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:47,580
uh that that is responsible for this panspermia\h
and then we also have Gene Thomas who had a\h\h

486
01:02:47,580 --> 01:02:51,780
comment that even if life was later spread\h
throughout the Universe it nonetheless had\h\h

487
01:02:51,780 --> 01:02:57,060
to have a beginning or many Beginnings that did\h
not rely on seeding from other sources thus Cosmic\h\h

488
01:02:57,060 --> 01:03:02,580
life is a combination of the spontaneous\h
generation and uh panspermia and then also\h\h

489
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:08,160
um Stephen Hall says even if panspermia is\h
the way life began on Earth he would still\h\h

490
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:14,280
need to account for the origin elsewhere right\h
yeah so how how do you respond to these ideas\h\h

491
01:03:14,940 --> 01:03:22,740
but I think I think I think he's right I mean\h
we really got to find an answer to if it ever\h\h

492
01:03:22,740 --> 01:03:29,820
started if it was eternally present then we\h
don't need to to worry about uh any any start\h\h

493
01:03:29,820 --> 01:03:38,760
of life or any start or anything but if it did\h
start in uh in a location that is much bigger\h\h

494
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:44,700
than the earth right for instance if the if the\h
space that is needed for spontaneous generation\h\h

495
01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:51,480
is essentially a whole galaxy or a cluster of\h
galaxies how did it start there how did it uh\h\h

496
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:59,340
overcome the the the improbability odds against\h
life that I have mentioned I mean Paul and I had\h\h

497
01:03:59,340 --> 01:04:05,880
to think a metaphor that is probably has been\h
immortalized to say that we think that life the\h\h

498
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:11,940
origin of life is like saying that uh tornado\h
blowing through a junkyard with all the bits\h\h

499
01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:18,060
and pieces the Plastics and the screws and so\h
on uh assembled fully working buoyance Boeing\h\h

500
01:04:18,060 --> 01:04:25,920
747 and we've gone a long way from Boeing 747s now\h
but anyway that's that's the kind of improvement\h\h

501
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,600
that when one has to cope with so it has to\h
start somewhere if there was ever a beginning\h\h

502
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:36,840
right and this is the question that uh is a\h
deep philosophical question that depends on your\h\h

503
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:42,540
personal point of view right uh the Babylonians\h
would say there was no beginning the Indians\h\h

504
01:04:42,540 --> 01:04:49,620
would say there was no beginning and but the the\h
Western tradition famous the beginning I think\h\h

505
01:04:49,620 --> 01:04:56,040
four reasons that are connected with theology\h
after all I mean God created the universe God\h\h

506
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:02,580
created the Earth God created life so there was\h
in in in in the western canon in the Canon of uh\h\h

507
01:05:02,580 --> 01:05:11,040
I remember I should stress that I'm not bashing\h
any religion I think Christianity is a great\h\h

508
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:17,640
religion it's a very it's been a civilizing force\h
for centuries and so on but it has an underlying\h\h

509
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:25,080
philosophy that is non uh supported not supported\h
by science which is the the story of Origins

510
01:05:30,660 --> 01:05:38,880
yeah I think it does yeah thank you so much so\h
we have a few more questions unfortunately we're\h\h

511
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:44,280
running out of time um but I will say that we're\h
going to ask one more but um before we close with\h\h

512
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:50,340
the last question um uh Chandra has agreed to\h
join us in the social Lounge um so some of you\h\h

513
01:05:50,340 --> 01:05:55,080
will have opportunities maybe to ask directly once\h
we are done with the session so the final question\h\h

514
01:05:55,080 --> 01:06:00,540
comes from the SSC secretary he asks at the end of\h
your talk he said that if panspermia is accepted\h\h

515
01:06:00,540 --> 01:06:05,820
it would have major changes on Humanity can you\h
elaborate on that and what makes you think that\h\h

516
01:06:05,820 --> 01:06:12,120
this knowledge would change Humanity well I think\h
I think what would what would happen immediately\h\h

517
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:19,860
is that scientific establishments universities\h
and so on would would suddenly realize that\h\h

518
01:06:19,860 --> 01:06:26,160
they've got to teach a different story right the\h
story that we are being told constantly for the\h\h

519
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:32,880
last uh 50 years ever since universities and\h
academies got very powerful was that there was\h\h

520
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:40,440
no other alternative but a beginning of\h
Life on the earth and that sort of gives\h\h

521
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:46,740
human beings a very important position in this\h
whole story humans are in some ways the center\h\h

522
01:06:46,740 --> 01:06:53,220
of this whole process of of Life the culmination\h
of the whole process of Life starting at some\h\h

523
01:06:53,220 --> 01:07:03,060
point on the earth perhaps or maybe elsewhere\h
but leading up to to humanity if that is eroded\h\h

524
01:07:03,060 --> 01:07:10,860
if there is is threatened then I think uh the\h
sort of view of ourselves is going to change we\h\h

525
01:07:10,860 --> 01:07:19,380
are not uh we are not anything special we are just\h
the outcome of a process of cosmic Evolution and\h\h

526
01:07:19,380 --> 01:07:24,480
um and that's the reason that I think that\h
we would become trivialized or we would\h\h

527
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:29,940
feel tribulized the other thing other aspect of\h
course is that if scientists and if philosophers\h\h

528
01:07:29,940 --> 01:07:37,500
have held a certain point of view for a hundred\h
years or many hundred years if they are proved\h\h

529
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:43,260
to be wrong then their egos are shattered\h
they've got to change their point of view and\h\h

530
01:07:43,260 --> 01:07:48,780
nobody in a professional situation is\h
very happy about changing their point\h\h

531
01:07:48,780 --> 01:07:54,240
of view they become less important they\h
can learn their self-importance is eroded\h\h

532
01:07:55,260 --> 01:08:01,800
yeah that makes sense well um SSC members patrons\h
I encourage you to stick around we're going to\h\h

533
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:07,260
open the social Lounge Sean is going to visit\h
us for a little bit uh thank you again Professor\h\h

534
01:08:07,260 --> 01:08:13,080
for joining us uh it was a wonderful afternoon\h
and I look forward to uh chatting with you some\h\h